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Circa 64 Otis MG Problem

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(@uppo72)
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Also check your series field tap setting are similar from lift to lift.



   
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 jkh
(@jkh)
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E-man,
I found an old write up that spoke of the hertz surface that builds up on the commutator you spoke off. It describes two methods in which to accelerate the hertz surface layer.

1) use pine wood to burnish the commutator.
2) use a very light layer of commutator oil applied by a rag or cloth.

Solidstate,
I looked through some old papers. There was three items I found for overspeeding.

1) load compensation switches
2) contacts such as H
3) motor field deterioration

Please let us know how you are making out...



   
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(@solidstate)
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Topic starter  
Uppo.. it is a single car.

At this point.. I would love to be back to the over speeding problem!! I have been battling with the new generator set up that seems to be a never ending night mare. Here is what it is doing now.

The unit will run fine in the up direction with out over speeding.( Have not put a tach on it but it does not trip the gov. switch)
When you put in a down call the gen loads up and wants to shut down, and the motor stops turning. It burned up the DF Coil in the leveling field, I assume because I didn't kill the power in time. I am getting the same field motor voltage and armature voltage in both directions as well as the same GLF voltage to the gen.

It will run down on inspect and if you run it up on inspect the motor at first jumps a couple of times and then smooths out.

On automatic if I block out the speed switches(which I assume is blocking the loop circuit of GF and GF1) and put in a call it will run down on slow speed until it comes in to the called floor and then will not level in. Talking to the motor shop he suggested I swap GSF and GSF1. Tried that.. no avail. He then suggested to swap GA and GSF around and it tried to load up without a call on it. The last suggestion he gave was to hook up GSF2(which is not hooked up to anything) in the place of GSF1 and leave GSF1 unhooked. This did not make any difference.

Thanks to everybody for your suggestions and help.



   
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(@john jay)
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this may be a silly question, and I am sure you checked, but are you picking the brake in the down direction. Also if the commutator looks like a new penny, let it run a while and get a glaze built up. Empty car up the counter weights are helping you, empty down you are picking a load. I would get the motor shop to get someone on site to make sure the Genny fields are wired properly.Don't discount the Motor fields, you may still have an issue there.



   
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(@solidstate)
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Topic starter  
No silly questions at this point. As we all know it will come down to some silly overlook or discounted notion.

The brake is picking.



   
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(@Rolly)
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If the polarity is wrong on the GSEF with relation to the leveling field and series field it will suicide very quickly. The compounding on the 63 GA is set with a wire you hook and not taps on the fields. The Large Series Field wires coming from the Gen are: From GSF to GSF2 is 4 turns of Series Field, from GSF2 to GSF1 is one turn of Series Field. So if you use GSF to GSF1 you will have 5 turns of Series Field.



   
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(@uppo72)
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Originally Posted By: solidstate
Uppo.. it is a single car.

At this point.. I would love to be back to the over speeding problem!! I have been battling with the new generator set up that seems to be a never ending night mare. Here is what it is doing now.

The unit will run fine in the up direction with out over speeding.( Have not put a tach on it but it does not trip the gov. switch)
When you put in a down call the gen loads up and wants to shut down, and the motor stops turning. It burned up the DF Coil in the leveling field, I assume because I didn't kill the power in time. I am getting the same field motor voltage and armature voltage in both directions as well as the same GLF voltage to the gen.

It will run down on inspect and if you run it up on inspect the motor at first jumps a couple of times and then smooths out.

On automatic if I block out the speed switches(which I assume is blocking the loop circuit of GF and GF1) and put in a call it will run down on slow speed until it comes in to the called floor and then will not level in. Talking to the motor shop he suggested I swap GSF and GSF1. Tried that.. no avail. He then suggested to swap GA and GSF around and it tried to load up without a call on it. The last suggestion he gave was to hook up GSF2(which is not hooked up to anything) in the place of GSF1 and leave GSF1 unhooked. This did not make any difference.

Thanks to everybody for your suggestions and help.

Thanks for your reply. We do have to clarify some points ie --when you put a down call and the gen loads up- does this trip the o/l and is that what you mean by wants to shut down?
--in this instance what do you mean by the motor stops turning?
--have you actually re-wired the genny? Changed anything settings/taps but have put them back? Set your neutral plane back to where it was, as its most likely they will be ok if it was working fine before.

Ok I think you need to prove that your hoist motor fields are indeed of the same value as if they aren't, then it all wont work. Also check that the field is replaced/repaired in the right polarity(no wire cross over, cross over etc). As to your stepping when on inspection the lifts gets jumpy, I would definitely check your U,UX,D,DX,1E contacts and brushes, plus their leads(most important) to make sure no high resistances or breaks under load are present.

When the lift tries to run on inspection on the up, does this stutter occur in all places in the shaft? Is it better down the bottom or up the top? What about the down?

As to your running the lift with your speed switches out, which lets full resistance in the GSEF and loop circuit, when it cant level in, is the lift stalling? Have you tried to push in the D contacts in the GLF circuit? What about DX in the loop circuit( or the diode)? I have also read somewhere that you should tune your empty car compounding via HSL speed with the up direction a little faster than the down. At the moment lets not get that deep yet. Also check your suicide circuits as well.

Any way this is just some thoughts to consider.

Last edited by uppo72; 08/15/14 03:52 PM.


   
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 hex
(@hex)
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I assume the issue has been fixed. Did it end up being a wiring issue?

I had something similar back in the day where one crew pulled the genny, a different crew put it in and my crew was sent in to find out why it didn't work. The rewind company labeled the wires differently than expected and that genny REALLY didn't like the car running down.



   
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(@uppo72)
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How did this go?



   
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(@solidstate)
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Topic starter  
Uppo72,

The unit is still down. No answer yet. There are a lot of people waiting for the results. I will post as soon as I know something.



   
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(@solidstate)
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Topic starter  
My apologies for not posting this resolution in the first place.

The problem turned out to be that the Generator we installed was wired for different voltage of the building.

IDWT the problem was on the ac side and it would bog down.

This was a night mare back then.

Vatorgator has told me on more than one occasion that we get the good ones!!!(they are all self inflicted)



   
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(@Indirtwetrust)
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Thanks. And agreed, some of my longest battles on generator jobs have been friendly fire. One repair crew pulls it out, another puts it back in or the driver dropped it off a truck.



   
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(@christycollett)
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You Say a motor field was replaced did you check the north south
orientation? Try reversing the leads on the new field pole. When rewound it can change when the shop checks it for continuity. I may be way off on this but it bit me in ass when we replaced all the field windings hooked them up as originaland the car went into orbit.



   
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(@christycollett)
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Another silly question, have you checked the North South orientation of the new field piece?



   
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