Elevator Forum

Improving Traction ...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Improving Traction / Cleaning Ropes

22 Posts
1 Users
0 Reactions
37.5 K Views
(@Indirtwetrust)
Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter   [#17731]
I had been having problems on a KCM 831 with an MX10 machine that I have since determined are related to traction. Tensioning the ropes and decreasing the accel/decel rates made a huge difference but I think the underlying problem may be the amount of oil on the ropes and sheave.

Does anyone know any tricks or products for improving traction or cleaning ropes in general? I have heard of using Comet but I didn't think it made much difference the one time I tried it. An old timer told me they used to use a beauty product called Fuller Earth to absorb excess oil and grease. But that makes me think a commercial oil soaking product might work better, maybe the powdery type they sell at Home Depot?

What do you think?



   
Quote
 jkh
(@jkh)
Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0
 
Bentonite powder was what we use to use. Make sure what ever you use you clean the ropes and sheave grooves.

Changing the accel and decel rate may serve as a temporary solution. Other things you may look at is the amount of rope that is making contact on the sheave, the rope groove wear and the hoist cable diameter. All I'm sure you have already considered...

Just a suggestion if the ropes were lubricated and it has soaked in, would it make more sense to replace the ropes?



   
ReplyQuote
(@john jay)
Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0
 
Fullers Earth and Comet will gum up. I would use a mild cleaner/degreaser and clean up as much of the excess lube as possible. The combination of a light car and counterweight, and over oiling the ropes will definitely cause traction problems. I just Inspected an MX10 that was tearing up the Drive Sheave after they re-roped it. those ropes had a dry hemp core and no lube. These things are a little sensitive, too much either side of perfect and you lose traction, or tear up a sheave.



   
ReplyQuote
(@Indirtwetrust)
Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter  
Re-roping is certainly an option though they're not under sized or that old. I would just like to see if it made any difference to dry up the situation a little bit. It may also be worth while to check the counterweighting. It's a 5000 lb car and it's possible the counterweight is heavy.



   
ReplyQuote
(@elmcannic)
Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0
 
I've been bitten twice in my career by this "over lubricating" using the Nylube type lubricator. Both times I used the Ajax/ Comet route to deal with my troubles. Yes, cleaning the sheave grooves is time consuming, and cleaning machines and car tops are part of the penalty, but it worked. I think it took three sprinklings to finally get it. I did have to modify speed parameters for the short duration, but you have to do what you have to do to overcome the trouble.

Wire brushed the ropes a few months later all has been good.

One concern I have is what, if any, long term effects the bleaching compounds in these products may have on the rope core or the frictional wear of the traction rope itself. I've never heard an answer or theory to the question.

Anyone?



   
ReplyQuote
(@beaupeep)
Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0
 
Hey dirt, what were your symptoms?



   
ReplyQuote
(@Rolly)
Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0
 
All MX Machines are horrible on traction. You will even see ropes slip on inspection.. Just a horrible traction relation machine. Had one in Ft. Lauderdale that was Underslung (roped 2:1)and would lose traction at an intermediate floor and fault almost every trip. Think I remember this job had special ropes too. Lang Lay I believe. Don't remember if the MX's are all Lang Lay or not. Every Job I went on with MX traction problems all have had different solutions. Changing the Accel/Decel rate was always one solution. Wire brushing the ropes I never tried but could be another logical solution to a junk machine. Liquids and powders never seemed to work.. Double check your counterbalance too, if that is off the problem is much more constant. Even a couple hundred pounds can make a huge difference.



   
ReplyQuote
(@Indirtwetrust)
Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter  
Ya I have been told several times that they are rarely balanced correctly. In fact, when we get a KCM drive repaired they only warranty it if we check the balancing and go through the brakes. As far as the symptoms, I posted on it about a month ago. My initial concern was the difference in measured speed feedback from the motor vs governor encoder, I never did find out how to correct this.

Thanks all for the input



   
ReplyQuote
(@Indirtwetrust)
Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0

   
ReplyQuote
(@DripCan)
Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0
 
I was told Kone want you to use the Draka lube instead of nylube.



   
ReplyQuote
(@lowoil)
Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0
 
Check the drive sheave the first one I ever put in was cut too deep from the factory and had to be replaced,ran fine for a while then started slipping.



   
ReplyQuote
(@uppo72)
Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0
 
I have had a similar issue, but didn't have the aid of getting into fault logs and data. We did it the old way, trial and error, and found adding a little car weight seemed to fix it. 3 x 15kg test weights on the car was the fix.



   
ReplyQuote
(@Silly)
Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0
 
Depending on location, seismic, or rail settle can also mess with accelerate or deceleration issues. Maybe a quick tram stick to check points on rails. Some of my synergy cars show traction faults from horrible rail jobs.



   
ReplyQuote
(@Indirtwetrust)
Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter  
I don't think weighting down the car is a solution, more like a band-aid.
I had the route mechanic take a closer look at the sheave today. He said the V grooves look like they're rounded. I think this is going to be the problem but I haven't been able to look at another one to make sure this is not normal.



   
ReplyQuote
(@uppo72)
Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0
 
Originally Posted By: Indirtwetrust
I don't think weighting down the car is a solution, more like a band-aid.
I had the route mechanic take a closer look at the sheave today. He said the V grooves look like they're rounded. I think this is going to be the problem but I haven't been able to look at another one to make sure this is not normal.

I agree it was a band aid repair, but we had no info what so ever to help us, so at the time we did what we could.



   
ReplyQuote
Page 1 / 2
Share:
Scroll to Top