john jay - yep...it's a roped hydraulic. Not sure if I have an overspeed collar.
it sometimes takes all day to get it off the safety because it happens on the top floor. This time, it got stuck on the top floor and they stated that something snapped.
Additionally, they said the temp sensor in the oil tank broke and they replaced it. They said this is common every 5 years.
But, they still don't know why the safety keeps going off.
They said they will be replacing the old contactor. They say that the only thing they can do is keep fixing it and keep going by baby steps.
From what you guys are saying, it really could be a number of things and best way is to get the professional to figure it out. The problem is they can't seem to do it. I'm really loyal and so I've been sticking with the present company for a while but I really need to get this elevator running...
Do you guys suggest a certain way to resolve this? For example, would hiring an elevator engineer to consult with present elevator company help? Or is there a certain type of company I should be using? Like union as opposed to non-union? Or should the techs have certain type of accreditations?
Thanks in advance for your help, guys. You guys have been great...
Ah yes it can be a drama if the safety gear is in on the top floor especially if the headroom is small. They have to be able to lift the car to disengage the gear and may not have room to do it in or to work.
Just another couple of points. I have worked on lots of roped hydraulics, but it was a while ago so bear with me. We had lots of problems with bouncing in of safety gear for no reason. By that I mean it didn't actually actuate or overspeed, but the lift or diverter sheave momentarily stopped on the rails. We had to check things like: rail clearances from S/gear, governor rope pit pulley weight too heavy and pulling the actuating arm down, gov rope loose, rope diverter sheave rails dry, rope diverter sheave rails loose and cause cross bar to bind in slipper guides.
All of these things should be checked. What is the manufacturer of the lift?
The correct oil would also make a difference, if the oil has overheated-maybe only once, it will need to be changed. 155F degrees is the cut off point for hydro oil, if it has ever risen above this magic point in temperature, the oil, valve, packing and and any other peice of rubber in the oil line will need to be replaced. Oil is acidic in nature, polymers are blended into the oil to prevent this acid from eating components in the oil system. This acidic oil will now cause many issues with the proper operation of the valve and packing. Acidic oil will turn most rubber "O" rings and packings into sponges, instead of sealing, the rubber now soaks and swells up creating many problems.
I've been trying to follow your thread while I was away. I'm sure you would agree how great it is so many are participating!
Please provide us with the manufacturer and model of the equipment?
You may need to ask your elevator contractor to help in answering our questions...
Single piston roped hydro? Duel piston roped hydro?
Slack in which cable(s)? Piston? Governor?
Is there an electrical switch on the overspeed governor?
Is there a chance the governor mechanical rope grips are tripping in the up direction? Is there a chance when the car starts to go down the dawgs on the safety plank grab the rails and stop the car?
If you were to open the doors, how close to the top landing floor is the elevator car floor?
Any chance you were riding the elevator when anything has happened? If so, when the car started to move up did it feel abrupt and bounce?
I know I've asked already! But this is really important.
Who is the manufacturer? (Otis, Schindler, Dover, Westinghouse)
What is the manufacturers model? (SOB, 330A, DMC, HYL2BC)
Manufacture and model # of the governor?
And one last thing any pictures? Governor, safety plank, pump unit, controller, piston assembly?
It's a good point that you mentioned the overheating because one of the techs had mentioned that the elevator might have went down because the oil had overheated. They had to turn the heater.
Let me get back to you on the manufacturer. I know the controllers are made by Motion Control Engineering.
Yeah, the forum is pretty great.
I'll try to get all the info for you later today. I'm trying to coordinate with the techs there and I'll try to get all the answers to your questions.
I just talked to the tech and he says he doesn't think it has anything to do with the shoe because he said if it was, the car would shake a lot and he said it looks like it's in pretty good condition.
He said the problem is the elevator loses direction even though they set it yesterday. When the elevator starts, he said it starts too sharp. He's going to replace a tiny valve within the valve and he thinks this might be the problem.
He also said that although this isn't urgent, we should change the oil (elevator is under 5 years old) because the color doesn't look right and it looks dirty.
Is the same tech there every time?
Why does he think it is losing direction?
How did he reset the direction?
Did he use a pressure gauge to trouble-shoot the valve?
What is the exact name of the part he said needed replaced?
Are you working on the answers to the questions I have asked?
I'm not sure if you are giving us bad information or if your tech is giving you bad information that you are relaying to us?
Ask the tech what the DBG is at the top and bottom? If he doesn't know what DBG means, you may want to seek out another contractor!
Let's try another route! How many hours have they been there in the last 60 days trouble-shooting this problem?
I just talked to the tech and he says he doesn't think it has anything to do with the shoe because he said if it was, the car would shake a lot and he said it looks like it's in pretty good condition.
He said the problem is the elevator loses direction even though they set it yesterday. When the elevator starts, he said it starts too sharp. He's going to replace a tiny valve within the valve and he thinks this might be the problem.
He also said that although this isn't urgent, we should change the oil (elevator is under 5 years old) because the color doesn't look right and it looks dirty.
This loss of direction sounds like the level/pausing fault and not the safety gear fault. It appears to me there is 2 faults here. If the direction is stopping of loosing, it could be a trailer fault losing the up levelling imput magnet( if this has them). It does sound like you have been in the wars but it appears to me it would be possibly very hard to trouble shoot.
I just want to go over what I see you are saying to us.
The car starts to move mostly in the up direction, then there is a pause, then an abrupt start to move again?
The car was found with the mechanical portion of the governor tripped, the car on safety and slack in the hoist cables?
The oil was found heated up to a high tempature and the oil tank over tempature switch was broken and was replaced?
The car when it is sitting idle and not being used will run the pump unit and relevel in?
And you've said the following corrective actions were taken?
A oil heater was installed?
The rails were polished?
Contactors or relays were replaced?
The oil over tempature sensor was replaced?
The piston packing was replaced?
And the oil flow was adjusted?
I am recommending you and your elevator contractor do the following;
1) Turn the power off to the elevator, place a gauge on the valve and close the hydrualic supply line shut off valve to the piston. If the pressure drops on the gauge the valve needs work.
2) Place the elevator controller on test, turn the power on. With the elevator at the bottom landing, place the elevator on controller inspection. Run the car up and watch the timing of wye and delta. If the time to transfer from wye to delta is lengthy (example would be 5 seconds) stop running the car up. Your DELX timer is bad or set too long.
3) with the controller on test and inspection, run the car up and watch if BB (the motor transfer pilot is picking up before delta. If it is then I belive the car is trying to run up while the pump motor is running in wye. If so, then when delta picks the pump would increase the pressure rapidly to the piston.
Let us know what you find...