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Kone ecospace V3F25 drive

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 Vic
(@Vic)
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Hi, y'all! I'm new here, came for a question. I'll try to help out, too.

I'm working on a Kone ecospace, with the flat motor, permanent magnet synchronous type, and there is a vibration coming from the motor. Changed the motor tach, changed the HCB/gate sandwich board pair in the drive cabinet, no help. Rails are lubed. (Slide guides!) Brakes are not dragging. Also upgraded the original ADON to the newer ADON2 board. Checked the three legs to the motor wih the scope, has a weird pattern, but same as a good car, just with a good bit of superimposed distortion. Any ideas?

Last edited by Vic; 04/19/11 11:58 PM.


   
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(@aquadag)
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make sure the cable tensions are equal and check the load weighing menu, 5 1 should read 0 also make sure there is nothing like debris on the govenor tach and the motoer tach since they both ride on said parts

Last edited by aquadag; 04/20/11 01:50 AM.


   
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 Vic
(@Vic)
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Cable tension! Ah hah, forgot about that one, thanks!

Loadweighing is functioning, if not totally accurate. Reads 0%, unless I step on the car, then it reads 3%. On a 3500# car, a 245# weight should read more like 7%. But at least the empty car reading is correct, and since the problem is occuring during empty car conditions, I tend to discount loadweighing as the culprit. But I will check it while the car is in flight, because it could be doing some weird cyclical oscillation, affecting the pattern to the drive.

Cleaned governor encoder wheel, checked coupling for tightness, cleaned tracking surfaces, checked spring tension.

The motor tach we swapped out was a good used one, but maybe not perfect in every way. Today we will check it's waveform output with the scope, clean it's wheel, clean the riding surface, and blow out the brushes. Think I'll look at the S-curve pattern as well with the scope, and the governor encoder pulses.

I've also been told to make sure that the motor tach cable shield is not grounded on both ends, just grounded on one end only. More suggestions were to do an ADON learn, and shaft learn. I'm going back there today to try your suggestion as well.

The motor vibrates in proportion to the speed of the car, throughout it's entire run. It's also a bit worse empty car down, when the motor is loaded, and little better empty car up.

I'm wondering about the 3 phase transistors in the drive, if one or more of them are f'd up. Maybe I should also check the current on all three legs...

Thanks for your reply, it's greatly appreciated.

Last edited by Vic; 04/20/11 04:04 PM.


   
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 Vic
(@Vic)
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Checked the motor leads today, ohms to ground. Each of the 3 legs reads about 1 half of an ohm. On a good car, each leg reads 10 to 12 megohms.

The first thing I don't understand, is how can the drive turn the motor, if all 3 legs are shorted to ground, thereby effectively shorting all the 3 phase output of the drive. You would think you would blow a fuse, or trigger a maximum current fault. But it don't.

The second thing I don't understand is, if all 3 legs are shorted to ground, how come they each only draw about 20 amps when running? Maybe the drive is limiting the current flow, and this is coming in waves, which sets up the motor vibration.

Last edited by Vic; 04/21/11 12:17 AM.


   
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(@fateinc2005)
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Does it always vibrate or is it after a long day of running ?we have found that if your brake time is set to default which is 30sec after a long day the brake will fatigue and not pick completely . We have been setting them to two sec in the 5-10 menu . That way every time the car stops by the time the doors open the brake is setting and not over heating . Did the problem start out of the blue or was it after some changes?



   
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 Vic
(@Vic)
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fate incorporated, (!) 🙂 The motor starts vibrating any time it is started up, any time of day, cold or hot. The problem started occuring suddenly, out of the blue. The only thing we can correlate is that it might have rained on the day it started, but that's implausible, cause there's no leaks in the shaft.

Thanks for the suggestion about the ebrake, I'll try that.

The resistance reading changed from one day to the next. On one day, each leg read 1/2 ohm to ground, but on the very next day, they read 1.5 ohms to ground, each. This was checked at the motor itself, with the field wires taken off the motor terminal connection strip.

I'm thinking moisture in the motor right now, because burnt windings would not change from one day to the next. Maybe it will read something else tomorrow. Going back tomorrow with my motor guru, so he can tell me it's shorted. Then I'll know! Heh heh! 🙂

Last edited by Vic; 04/22/11 04:08 AM.


   
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 Vic
(@Vic)
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Shorted. Looking to rewind it.

Anybody know how to pull the thing out, and take it apart?



   
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(@kiwinightstalker)
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wow how old is it...dont hear of too many modern motors going AWOL....You said it may have been water damaged...well the client is up for a big bill then...if not I would be going to Kone and asking some VERY pointed questions as why the motor has failed.



   
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 Vic
(@Vic)
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I think it's from 2006, but have to look again to be sure.

No evidence of water damage, but that investigation has not been exhausted thoroughly.

That's a good idea, Kone should answer up for the early failure of their much-ballyhooed PMSM ecodisc motor. That is my next move. I have heard two separate conflicting reports concerning these Kone ecodisc motors

1) They never burn out, and Kone never changes them for that reason, but they do change them out, only just for bearings. (That came from a Kone employee) Must be undersized bearings, if this fairly new product is already needing bearings. Old Otis motors are still working that are 45 years old, or even older. This new Kone ecodisc MRL stuff seems to be very "lightweight", and not in a good way.

2) There a lot of burnt Kone ecodisc motors, a lot of pissed-off Kone MRL customers, and they change the motors frequently. This came from an independant. He also said they are so cheap, they are not worth fixing, so they just throw them out. Now that's hardly "eco-friendly"!

Makes ya wonder what to beleive!

How's the weather in Sydney?

Last edited by Vic; 04/23/11 06:52 PM.


   
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