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 EDMAn
(@EDMAn)
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15/03/2013 7:41 am  
Why not have an alarm company install a high water level alarm in the pit? If it goes off, call your elevator tech to open the doors for you to have a look.



   
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 sbrmilitia
(@sbrmilitia)
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15/03/2013 11:23 am  
The Thyssen Service Tech should lock and tag out the elevator. Is it not Thyssens responsibility to remove water from the pit. The car should be locked and tagged out at the top floor and jack stands installed in the pit, the tech then should get with the building to schedule a time for a high water alarm and sump pump to be installed. The car should not be allowed back into service until the building resolves the flooding issue. All rusted equipment and electrical equipment should be changed and billed to the customer. Building personal shouldn't be allowed to access a pit without a Thyssen Mechanic on site since we take the liability for any accidents that happens on that unit. If you cannot fully resolve the flooding issue then a alarm and sump needs to be installed asap. Also since the pit had water damage you also should be billed for the pit to be painted or hire a contractor to do it while a TK employee supervises the accessing of the pit. Since you are being billed for it, request someone else besides the tech to come and be on the property for the couple days it will take to install the alarm, sump, dry the pit out, change all affected equipment, and to paint the pit. A billable repair mechanic should be there. The service tech has a route and calls holding and cant be there for the time needed to properly take care of your problem. Yes this will be costly but in the long run it will save you big. You need to get ahold of the Thyssen office get a signed proposal that has the scope of work and the time allotted. Then there is no miss communication.

Last edited by sbrmilitia; 03/15/13 03:24 AM.


   
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 Lae
(@Lae)
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Topic starter 16/03/2013 7:17 am  
There is a sump in the pit, always has been. The building is only 5 years old. The sump somehow malfunctioned and failed to push water out of the pit.

A high water alarm would be intelligent.

I'm not sure where we stand on the billing/work completed, the elevator is in service though. Apparently there was a rust issue before the flooding event, need to get some more info from Thyssen on the timeline.

Thyssen has access to our maintenance personal they just failed to notify use in a timely fashion until significant damage was done.

Aside: Do you really use jack stands 4 stories high? Or is there some other mechanical method to secure the car?



   
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 Broke_Sheave
(@Broke_Sheave)
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16/03/2013 7:58 am  
Originally Posted By: sbrmilitia
The Thyssen Service Tech should lock and tag out the elevator. Is it not Thyssens responsibility to remove water from the pit. The car should be locked and tagged out at the top floor and jack stands installed in the pit, the tech then should get with the building to schedule a time for a high water alarm and sump pump to be installed. The car should not be allowed back into service until the building resolves the flooding issue. All rusted equipment and electrical equipment should be changed and billed to the customer. Building personal shouldn't be allowed to access a pit without a Thyssen Mechanic on site since we take the liability for any accidents that happens on that unit. If you cannot fully resolve the flooding issue then a alarm and sump needs to be installed asap. Also since the pit had water damage you also should be billed for the pit to be painted or hire a contractor to do it while a TK employee supervises the accessing of the pit. Since you are being billed for it, request someone else besides the tech to come and be on the property for the couple days it will take to install the alarm, sump, dry the pit out, change all affected equipment, and to paint the pit. A billable repair mechanic should be there. The service tech has a route and calls holding and cant be there for the time needed to properly take care of your problem. Yes this will be costly but in the long run it will save you big. You need to get ahold of the Thyssen office get a signed proposal that has the scope of work and the time allotted. Then there is no miss communication.

Exactly.

Don't you guys just love it that not only are you responsible for every part on the elevator, regardless of age, but some building owners want you to responsible for acts of nature, vandalism, the list goes on and on.



   
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 Lae
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Topic starter 16/03/2013 11:52 am  
Broke: I have no problems with the contract and our obligations, or the techs.

I do agree with SBR that the elevator should have immediately been locked out and the ball thrown in our court. I would have been more then happy to have that scenario go down. It would have been safer for everyone and the problem could have been headed off before catastrophic levels of water pooled. I'm sure you techs love jumping into electrified pools of water!

Anyway, I am not here to bitch to you guys. I am here to listen to what people like SBR are saying because I don't know what would have been an appropriate course of action, but SBR's comments are telling me that what did go down was definitely not it.



   
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 sbrmilitia
(@sbrmilitia)
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18/03/2013 7:38 pm  
It's a hydro right? It's thyssenkrupp policy to put jack stands in if any work that takes longer then 15 mins in the pit. Does not mean the car needs to be landed on them just if something fails the car would be stopped by the stands instead of your head



   
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 Lae
(@Lae)
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Topic starter 18/03/2013 7:48 pm  
Yeah, it's hydraulic.

It's funny that I work under and around hydraulically suspended loads all day... I guess the difference is the confined space.

Is the pit technically considered a confined space? And needs all those confined space treatments?



   
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 jkh
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18/03/2013 10:46 pm  



   
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 sbrmilitia
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19/03/2013 12:35 am  
No elevator pits are not a permit required confined space



   
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 charlie
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19/03/2013 12:44 am  
Originally Posted By: sbrmilitia
No elevator pits are not a permit required confined space

That depends. At certain plants they are. It depends on whats manufactured/tested onsite... Chemical plants for example...



   
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 sbrmilitia
(@sbrmilitia)
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19/03/2013 12:05 pm  
What I meant is, it is thyssenkrupps policy we do not work in permit required confined spaces. The pit must be de classified, what made it a permit required space in the first place? What IDLH situation exists? Whatever that is it has to be mitigated so a NON permit confined space can be achieved. If the pit cannot be declassified then we do not do the work. But in a condo there shouldn't be any IDLH situations.

Last edited by sbrmilitia; 03/19/13 04:07 AM.


   
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 J Sand
(@J Sand)
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19/03/2013 12:42 pm  
Per OSHA, a confined space is defined as a space you cannot readily walk out of. A pit that requires a ladder for egress, by definition is a confined space. Walk in pits by themselves have a normal path of egress. Of course atmospheric/obstruction/equipment (walk in pit where the toe-guard impedes the path) conditions can come into play also.



   
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