Robert, What was the status of the emergency phone. Was he found to be somewhat guilt in creating what was his own death. When your car breaks down on say the "Golden Gate Bridge", they always tell you to stay in the car..Don't exit the vehicle! Should this not be practiced on an elevator! I remember reading about this in the S.F. Chronicle. This happened on Thanksgiving Eve early in the evening I think. I know for years here in Northern California it's an "red-tag", don't know what happened in this case! You hate to hear of any deaths associated with our industry!

I would definitely agree with halfpick on this one. Thats why I think the car door locking device is a great way to solve this problem. Only thing is when you get stuck inside you are now fucked.

the problem with a lot of restrictors, especially GAL, they can be forced open by most people or get stuck in the open position. the older units that dont have restrictors tend to be the units that would stop in between landings more often. i guess my point is that no matter how safe we build elevators someone will figure out how to get hurt or worse. i feel bad for the guy and his family and friends but it was his own fault. people are always in a rush or think they are smarter than an elevator. the equipment doesnt care who you are, it will hurt you in the right circumstance.

What you saw in the news paper article was mostly correct and yet not all the information. If it settles, as many of these cases do, the public may never know exactly what happened.

I myself personally would not take the risk of jumping out of an elevator when the platform is 4' above the landing because I know better.

When you are standing on a platform 4' above the floor, it really does not look like its that far to jump or scoot out on your belly. I think it is a matter of perception on the part of people stuck in the car.

With the stop switch in the off position, no power on the doors, the code book states it shall be openable with less than 75ft lbs of force. (Assuming floor level)

What we can all do is to get the word out through places like www.eesf.org

The city of Los Angeles requires signage about what to do if you are stuck in an elevator.

I will be up on Market Street tomorrow morning for an appointment. My flight leaves in the evening. I hope Halfpick, we can get meet for coffee before my flight leaves.

Respectfully Submitted,

Robert L Krieger Jr.

In my opinion they should mandate a restrictor system like what Otis has used/uses. You cannot defeat two pieces of angle iron!

@Robert,

I'll be down the pennisula all day. Are you teaching the PACE class on April 16th. in South San Francisco by chance?

Agreed! I cannot stand Adams Hatch Latches.

@halfpick. I am teaching a class of students on A17.1 at the JW Marriott. It would be great if I can make arrangements to take 4 students to a high rise and show the machine room and related equipment.

CJ Anderson also has an electronic door restrictor. Pretty decent video can be found showing how it works.

Respectfully Submitted,

Robert L Krieger Jr.

Make sure the electronic door restrictor is code compliant in you're state. They are not in Wisconsin.

If what I am hearing is true the newest code is now going to mandate a restrictor system that has to be electronically monitored. That will basically take the angle /vane system out of use. Their argument is that most mechanical systems are easily defeated. Any system can be defeated if you really think about it. I don't really get this because most of the newer designs work well if installed correctly.

@Smitty,
Ask the person telling you that to show you where it is stated in the code book. Sometimes because of our believing nature we accept myth as reality. I have been fooled by others too often so I now respectfully ask them to show me in the code book.

Respectfully Submitted,

Robert L Krieger JR.

Can anyone tell me how many restrictors have have seen removed due to the fact they either played up or broke in NORMAL usage, I have seen heaps that have been removed and others that due to the fact they have a contact on them caused continuous passengers to be trapped for no reason other than the contact was not adjusted to a critical position. Why do lifts really need a restrictor anyway when the gap between the sill and wall USUALLY isnt big enough to fall through when well flushing etc is fitted correctly.

Well many restrictors were really poorly engineered when they first came out. The older GAL comes to mind because the first time it has to work, it bends and then causes clutch problems. The MAC operator restrictor was another piece of junk. Most of them did not have an electrical contact to either shut the unit down or at least act as a secondary door open limit. Therefor you either burned up operator belts or would blow fuses in the door operator do to the fact that the doors were trying to open and could not. They were often a headache for most maintenance men. This lead to many jobs having the restrictor removed or made ineffective. Unfortunately ,the real problem is that people try and climb out of elevators that are often 4 or 5 ft above the floor. This has resulted in many deaths since people have slipped under the elevator when trying to jump to the floor. With the advent of newer codes requiring a longer toe guard the problem is helped but the safest place for any passenger is to stay in the elevator until help arrives. The angle system is probably the most foolproof and mechanically sound. The newer car door restrictors being made today are better but they still need to installed and maintained properly.

You have stated the case for door restrictors succinctly. If anyone has any questions as to why they are important simply talk to the AHJ who has investigated such a fatality. The AHJ's are frequently prevented by duty from making public comments, however buy the inspector a cup of joe and ask them what they think of the importance of door restrictors. It will make you a supporter of the devices.

Yes, all moving equipment needs service, adjustment and maintenance. I predict that within the next several years of lack of maintenance, it will take its toll on our infrastructure and economy.

It is up to the Mechanics to hold the line on safety and protect the public.

The people who tell the building owner what the building owner wants to hear as opposed to reality, is a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretense or deception. Yes, I have found myself employed by such people and when I found out, I also found out they did not have the money to pay me. Go Figure.

Respectfully Submitted,

Robert L Krieger Jr.