All right Guys!

How bout I offer a little kit that would cost your boss around 200 bucks work on just about any elevator that you could install in less than an a hour right at the controller. Once installed, it would take two jumpers to run the car and only on inspection.

I'm a 40 year retired IUEC and would to happy to build a test these things under someone else's liability.

Jim

PS: For chump change just in the past few months, one death and one serious injury could have been prevented.

Lets not forget that jumping out door locks is just one point that causes injury or death. leaving jumpers behind on slow down switches, SOS switches , stop switches. May not produce the dramatic results as door locks but injure elevator workers and the riding public none the less. And for around the same 200$ every elevator person could be carring 3 Time Out Jumpers. That have been on the market for over 2 years. We use to just tell people to be careful. Now we supply hard hats , safety glasses and fall arrest systems. It is time to mandate the use of the Time Out Jumper and stop saying it shouldnt happen and it shouldnt I agree. But the point is it IS HAPPENING!!! And we are noy using what we have NOW to stop it.

Dan Z
Although I think the time out jumpers are a great idea! I still see that much more is needed.

An accident may still happen even with a jumper that times out. Would you agree?

When I have to jump out any part of a safety circuit I secure the car and visually check to see the car is empty. I then disable the door open circuit and/or place the elevator on inspection. With a meter I will check the safety circuit string and look for the openning. Then I will jump out the open portion of the safety circuit.

If the problem isn't so simple to follow my normal pattern of trouble-shooting then I adapt to the situation. Always keeping control of the elevator. And never allowing anyone but our personnel to ride while we are working on the elevator.

I am interested to learn how others approach and the procedures they use when out in the field. How can I improve on my pattern for a trouble call?

jkh Yes there is no question the TOJ is as dangerous as any jumper when in the closed posistion. The best thing about the TOJ is that it will take itself out after a set time something normal jumpers cant do. I belive that as in most cases the people who care enough to spen time doing x-tra research into their profesion and use sites like this are the least likely to have major safety problems. As everyone keeps saying what we were taught. Use your meter first. Get controll of the elevator. Know what and where your elevator is and who is on it. Very basic elevator 1 0 1 stuff. And if everyone is doing the right thing all the time no one would need the TOJ. And we could get rid of cops, lawers, and judges while we are at it. So as long as people are people and the way our industry is going with more and more units assinged to guys who then have to team up to preform their own repairs. No helper time and one man testing I dont see thing getting alot better real soon. It just really bothers me to hear of people being hurt or killed when you know it could of been prevented. FIRST by proper elevator safety protocal and second by the TOJ.

After looking at what I came up with discovered a weak point. It monitors the door close limit was well as the locks and gate switch. Problem is just about all door close limits open when the doors are closed. Not a positive input like the locks and gate switch. So, I�m backing off and only offering a simple kit that would require 2 jumpers to run the car rather the one. In this case the cost would 200 or less and might find its niche somewhere between FSSG* and nothing. The kit could be an alternative to FSSG on older and smaller jobs without inspection.

*FSSG is and add on that detects a jumper on the locks and gate switch and then places the car in inspection when detected. It�s a great idea and a �Life Saver� For more information contact.

Patrick A. Carrajat [email protected]

Jim,
I like the direction you are taking me. I personally feel we need additional circuits to help promote the safety of elevators. If we have the gate switch in one circuit and the hatch doors in another that means two jumpers are needed to by pass the car. If you add a switch to the door operator to make as the close limit opens there is a redundancy for safety for the car gate. I liked the second set of contacts in some of the old Westinghouse locks. Just add another control circuit and it may help! Yes i know it still comes down to the person putting on jumpers to bypass. But this is about percentages. Two is better then one, three is better then two!

DanZ
I did look into the timeout jumpers. Wurtec is selling them for $89.25 per unit! When I googled the timeout jumper you came up as the inventor. I would like to know if the information that concerns me about the unit is true? I was told that the maximum time that could be programmed is 99 hours and 59 minutes. Is that information correct?

Hey Dan, I'm not the inventor and don't really approve of them.

It's back to the guy on the job. We will talk more about my little change.

Jim

They could mandate on all units the new style door bypass switches that are found on the newer elevators that put you on car top inspection when active. I also like the idea of redundant door limits. The current use of a DPM limit is a great thing since the unit will not run until the doors are physically shut even if the gate circuit is jumped out. Of course any safety can be defeated if you try hard enough but as JKH said above, it is about percentages. Anything that makes this scenario more unlikely is a positive step. I really don't like the TOJ because to me anyhow, the best remedy for jumper carelessness is to totally discourage the use of them in ordinary troubleshooting. The door lock bypass circuit does give the field technician a safer means of bypassing the locks without the use of any jumpers at all.

The elevator man that was injured that got me thinking about the TOJ was hurt when a car ran with the car top stop switch had been jumped!!! Like I said the hall and car gate are the big attension getter but may not be the leading cause of people getting hurt. Killed maybe but hurt ???? Yes the TOJ are priced at around 90$ so 3 per man 270$ alot cheaper that even 200$ for every elevator. JKH the max time is 99hrs and 59 sec. But there is a master controll that can be set to only allow an predetermined amount of time. Say 10 miniutes if that is what a company decides to set their safety policy to.

Dan
I'm concerned that a cleaver mechanic will find a way to bypass any master control or a lazy manager will give out the password or leave it up to a mechanic to set up a TOJ.

Its my opinion that the best line of defense is at the controller. A door bypass circuit switch that disables the door open circuit or places the car on inspection when toggled. Training and additional redundancies in the gate and hatch door circuits I believe are better then any type of jumper.

I do wish you luck with your business endeavor.

JKH No one would be happier than me if they mandated bypass-infared detectors and unintended motion. It is really a no brainer if safety is really the first priority. And I would still make an argument for the TOJ even if it were not my invention. You can train a person and preach till you are blue in the face but people will still forget. I remember the first time we were forced to wear hard hats on the job. Then safety belts and eye protection and we all knew it was a pain and it only happened to someone elce.But the numbers do not lie these mandated safety devices have reduced the number of deaths and injuries in our trade. The jumpers are the same. Everyone wants to think it would never happen to them I would never forget. Or we can train this problem away. Well then why does it still happen??? Elevator men are being charged with criminal offences that could land them in jail for 10 years. They are talking about charges being brought on 5 or 6 people who have already lost their job. And if it was a jumper we all know it was installed and forgotten by one man. I have family and dear friends in this trade that I never want to see them hurt or accused of a crime because they or someone elce forgot something. Why would we not use something that is safer?

Dan

Again, I am for any improvement that will cut down the percentage of the "opertunity" for an accident to happen. Your contribution is a notibale addition to the industry. However I for one with my limited experience in the industry am not a believer in the TOJs Merritt's.

A jumper is a jumper! Timer or not. Once a circuit is bypassed by a mechanic the control of the elevator is the issue! We as a society of perfesionals need to dig deeper and find a more plausible solution.

As far as the PPE program! It has made an impact on all trades. The value of safety glasses, hard hats and other protective wear is not in question. The hazards have to be identified by each individual in their perspective industries.

In my opinion training is our most valuable tool in our bags! Wether you are in a class room or in the field you can always learn something of value.

And Dan if the instructor PREACHING was not blue in the face ask yourself if you would have kept those lessons all of your years.

I am the safety director and Yes my face is Blue!!!!

I wonder about a few things. Maybe it's just the times of instant media, and the entire world connected together, but it seems like in the olden days, an elevator tradgedy happened every few years, and everybody heard about it. The incidents seemed a lot more rare.

Now it seems like hardly a month goes by, that we aren't hearing about a passenger or mechanic involved in a fatality.

I can also remember the time when, if a consultant showed up on your job, it was taken personally by the mechanic and the company. The very idea that the building didn't trust us enough to hire an outside consultant was shameful.

Now it's just an everyday occurence..

I have my thoughts on both counts, but before I respond, was wondering what you guys thought????

I belive consultants being one of the biggest growth areas in our trade over the last 10 to 15 years is in direct proportion to the overloading of routes. The elimanation of repair and testing crews and the overall decline of quality of service provided by a majority in our industry. I would belive that the injury rate could be linked to the shoter time it now takes to become a mechanic. But the numbers will prove that wrong as most serious injurys are involving men with at least 20 years in the trade???? Are the injury rates related to the number of hours worked???? I am not sure and proably will neve get the data needed to have more than just my opnion.