If they respond, are they breaking the union rules regarding soliciting your own employment?

Just curious.

(We all know how life really works, it's all about relationships)

Oddly enough, its about perception. The so called "trouble shooters" enjoy and are aware of how Precariously on the perception knife edge they are. If the advertiser was really interested in a "Union Mechanic" there are over 200 to choose from willing to take the call.

In every company there is a need for a Trouble Shooter just as there is a need for a repair mechanic. If you send a guy out that has done service all his career and tell him to "put that cylinder in" he's not going to have a clue how to do it. Just as if you ask a repair mechanic to figure out a complex group dispatcher problem. No Clue...

Let's not be naive about how this industry works. When I call the Union for a Trouble Shooter they just laugh and say Good Luck!!!!

troubleshooters are a dying breed, 20 years ago, the company would groom a likely suspect to be there go to guy. That guy would eventually work on enough problem elevators over the years to be confident enough to work on any equipment. Although he may not be an expert on all equipment, he had a good working "elevator knowledge", and given the time, he could fix most problems. The company was an essential part of this process, they would give the guy all the time he needed to learn and fix the unit. over time, his knowledge grew, and when he showed up to fix a tough call, he could rely on years of memories to help him fix the unit quickly. Unfortunately most companies are no longer doing this, they have the young guy call a service center that has an expert on the equipment he is working on. the expert, may help him fix it, but unfortunately the mechanic on the other end will barely understand what the expert is having him do. when all is done the car is running, the mechanicy has no clue as to why, and life continues. now you know why the union hall will laugh when you ask for a troubleshooter, there are only a handful left. and that is unfortunate. this is a tough business, and with the mix of old and new controllers, the young mechanic has his hands full.

I'm happy when I find someone who can use a meter, and knows which way to turn a pair of Channelocks!

Troubleshooter? Wow, if only..

Sorry for the following negative rant- it deals mostly with the past, and things are so much better now. But here is some of my experiences with union labor shoved my way over the years...

I tried to train one guy, who turned out to be a tweaker and a thief, stole more than $10k worth of my tools. You can spot him by his lack of hair, rotting teeth, and the stack of stolen merchandise in his garage.

Then I tried to train another guy to be an adjuster, who although had some electronics knowledge, turned out to be a totally unreliable drunk, and wasted more of my time. He missed three inspection days as my helper. Hired him back after he went through re-hab, but he still had the shakes and f'd up repeatedly. So much for giving losers a second chance to screw me.

Then there was this little miserable, insecure, retarded guy, who couldn't be trained to pick a door over four years, and had a "poor me, I'm the only one who is working hard, everybody else is taking it easy", piss-poor attitude. Black cloud of self-pity over his head all the time. Previous boss described him as "the most miserable human being in the world". I didn't know what he meant by that until I got to know him. Even so, I tried to give him every chance to improve, for four years. So much for being patient with born losers.

There was another guy who would find car tops to sleep on, and was lazy as sht, then tried to sue me for, wait for it...STRESS! As if he was under any stress at all while he was hiding from an honest days' work, asleep on company time...

Another guy fixed his car and went shopping on my dime, and my time, which is arguably GRAND THEFT larceny.

Another guy was a loud mouthed paranoid racist, who caused two good hard working Hispanic guys to quit. (They said they either had to quit, or kill the jerk) So I lost two there, and fired the other. He viciously refused to give my truck back, until I went over to his house and demanded it back. As if keeping the truck would keep his job. Psycho-Weirdo..

The guy who I set my hopes on now, just got a DUI. His second.

Another one side-swiped both sides of one of my trucks, while driving drunk. Thankfully, this guy has cleaned up his act. He's a good guy, all told.

I've had behavior problems, thieves, retards, drunks, tweakers, criminals, empty-headed, un-safe, un-coordinated, un-teachable, blind, weak, uncooperative, argumentative, combative and stupid people, all sent to me without warning by the Hall. Like the Hall was just throwing slugs at me, that they found under a rock.

Poor quality local membership has cost me untold thousands of dollars, possibly hundreds of thousands over 17 years.

One time, I laid off everybody, all 17 people in the space of just a few days, and started all over from scratch. I only kept one guy, who I had faith in. Interestingly, I didn't get him through the hall. He was hired back in the good old days, when we could use our business intuition, and start people off the street if the bench was empty. He's still with me today, 12 years later. Would that there were more like him in our local.

On a more positive note, after having about 60 members pass through our payroll, there was bout ten fairly good guys, and about 5 really good guys. If only I could schedule jobs to dovetail perfectly, I wish I never would have had to lay them off for lack of work.

Sheesh...You'd think this trade would attract good people who recognize a good opportunity and stick to it. Instead, I got flotsam and jetsom, bathtub-ring, bottom-feeding, cave-dwellers. Or at least, that's what I got by just calling the Hall, and just taking whoever they send, without doing my due diligence to investigate the character and history of the individual. For a while, I thought they were trying to put me out of business by sabotaging my operations with useless shtheads.

Now I see, after years and years of frustration, now I understand, it is all about relationships. I'll never call the Hall again, and just ask for any-old somebody. That's a recipe for disaster.

Tell us how you really feel Vic...LOL..

Everytime I see a homeless guy on the street, I point him out to my family and tell them..."There's another retired elevator adjuster"..

Maybe I'm old. Well on 2nd thought there aint no "Maybe" to it. I went through the "Good Ole Days" and it just seemed a lot more fun back then. More elevators got fixed at lunch and at beer joints than on the job back then.

I could go on a rant about too many units, education of elevator proffesionals, and the whole thing but I'll leave everyone this thought.

This is a hell of a trade. If you are successful in this trade you will do better than around 90% of the population out there. It is NOT an 8 hour job. Bring adjusters manuals home and study them. Bring Prints home and study them. Sign up for night courses and take them. And you WILL get to the point where nothing scares you, and be able to fix anything. From old open loop electro-mechancal to the latest and greatest VVVF, CAN network controls. What's that worth to you and your family?

In this day and age if you can actually FIX an elevator, you got a job for life, at great pay. As you can see by this thread, real, live troubleshooters are always in demand and there's never a lack of work.

Sorry for getting on my soap box.

Hey Vic, I think we've hired some of these same guys over the years. What is it about not wanting to give the vehicle back? We've had guys quit and just leave their work van in a random parking lot. Or if they get fired, they take their van home unwilling to return it.
I have to say, we've been pretty lucky with the mechanics the union has sent us recently. I'm hoping this is the new normal and were not just lucky.

Broke_Sheave, you couldn't have said it better about putting the extra effort to take the prints home and studying. Every Trouble Shooter I've ever met did just this and has benefited from it.

Sorry again everybody for the negative tone. I'm actually pretty positive minded, and still optimistic. I still look for the best in people.

Broke Sheave, yes, companies have their bad sides also. Once I was put on a route that literally had 12 calls on Monday morning, and dozens through the week. After about a year and half, I cleaned it up to the point where it had just a few calls a week. In way of saying thank you, the company laid me off, then split the route up among the other routes. Worked myself out of that job.. So I guess I've seen the worst on both sides of the desk, and could argue for either side convincingly enough.

I think the mandatory education, state certified, is changing us slowly. I think we are emerging as a better trade, more professional.

Another thing that comes to mind, is how the companies are slashing prices for service. It's gotten to the point, where no real effective preventative maintenance is going on in L.A., too many units, no time for anything. instead of maintaining equipment, the majors just push for mods. If you want to stay alive as a business owner, you have to match the prices of the competition. No customer will sign with you based on "we do it better, so we charge more" principle. It comes down to money, bottom line. Proprietary controls give the majors a stranglehold over some of their customers.

So why don't the majors set the tone, and keep prices stable?
(Cuz then I'll undercut them, that's why!) hah hah...

Admin,
That's a weird phenomenon, about not returning the company vehicle. Poor character. Even if you are getting laid off/fired, you bring their property back.

Now I know why back when a former boss said "come into the shop", before telling me I was laid off. He didn't want to have to go chase the vehicle. It's not like I was gonna send it over a cliff..

WOW, who knew my little ad would get so much attention! I actually know or know of most of the trouble shooters in this local. These guys are pretty well taken care of by their companies or they own their own companies.

This ad is more pointed toward mechanics from other locals who may be moving to the LA area. Or if there is TS who is not happy with their current company and looking to make a change. I've never heard of a TS going to the hall to ask their reps to find a position at a different company. How else can a company find a TS without putting the word out?
Thanks for all the feedback. Its been entertaining to read. 😆

Well we dont have this type of employment arrangement here, as companies do their own hiring and firing. I'm amazed at the despair some of you have in trying to find quality mechanics and the fact that the training may not be up to it. It was always like proffessional sport in that the senior guys took the youngins under their wing and over time there was a natural development of these guys up the chain. I know in my starting year (1990) we have developed from 6 apprentices to basically 5 very senior mechanics. It all comes down the will to learn i guess, but also about formal training. Here we are trained as electricians first(at trade school), then as lift mechanics secondly(at trade school also so a formal qual but that now has been dropped). Doing it this way, you really understand the electrics behind a lift. It also is about the company rotating juniors thru those mechanics that are pedantic about service who will put time and effort into actually making apprentices actually doing breakdowns as opposed to just watching and forgeting what they see. The only real downside to our training was we had fitters to do the mechanical stuff(major works) so we didnt get too invloved in this and that was to our detriment. Since, now working for a small company, doing all the work it provides a good balance of both.

It is also a function of new pc style elevators as it virtually tells you what is wrong. In the old days of relay logic you actually had to learn what each relay does. Essentially in australia the relay logic mechanic has started to become a dying breed, esspecially an otis selector expert even at otis.

We have a great trade that is slowly turning into a reset trade.

On the topic of TS's, mostly small companies are poaching these types on top dollar and will continue to in the future.

Just on getting the best out of the company/its employees.

When a company decides to employ apprentices you have essentially a pact between 2 sides.

The employee agrees to learn, via formal training(@ school) and on the job. Apply what he has learnt, retain it, use it, show it to the best they can to provide the company with a rate of return, in return for great training and pay (particularly in the lift industry).

The company must provide the tools for the apprentice to be the best they can via its training. formal training(@ school) is a given plus the added on the job learning. This on the job stuff is critical to learners becoming good mechanics so its incombant on the company to link the good teachers with these new employees. They learn good discipline( times etc) but critically they show how to be a good mechanic and intern a good trouble shooter(the reference to this thread).

I was lucky to have great mechanics as role models. i applied this to my apprentices and within weeks these guys had the basics to what i called the 'system of lift control'. I learnt from my teachers that when going into a m/room, puts your hands in your pockets and use your eyes and you will within 5 minutes be able to tell if a lift has power( by walking past the main switch if it's tripped), has the lift got direction,doors,safety,reverser ccts etc. By applying basic methods to start with it goes a long way to getting these guys to be the trouble shooters of the future.

Time and again i've seen mechanis use the apprentices as their personal errand boys, isolated cleaners, targets of jokers and bullyers and it makes me sick. We as mechanics have to fundamental obligation to TRAIN these people for the continuation of the lift industry and any industry for that matter.

/end rant!!

Well Mr. Opportunity, did you find the candidate you were looking for?

It seems to me that you were on a fishing expedition just to see who would respond to your post. I sure hope not, as the person who is has nothing left to loose is not the person you want to get on the wrong side of. �for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.�

I'm sorry Vic you have had such difficulties with people in the past. We have met and I find you to be a person I would be glad to work with. Many substance abusers also have serious mental problems. It's not that so many good actors are substance abusers, it's that so many substance abusers are good actors. I would hope that one day people check driving and arrest records as well as credit reports when deciding to take a chance on some one. While it is an expensive exam, Wonderlick offers an evaluation that can quantitatively tell you about the candidates work habits.

At the same time, people do pick up new behaviors that work better than the old ones. Ethical behaviors is a start, skills can be learned and therefore taught.

I'm against interviews in a bar and think that has happened too many times. As an employer, you have a responsibility to yourself as well as the other employees in a company. That's why it is important to select the right candidate. The professional "victim" is not the best choice. The person who assumes responsibility and does the right thing would be a better candidate.

In my travels I have come across many good people, so I know they are out there. Such people work independently, with out direct supervision and are trustworthy and honorable. Simply stated their financial dealings are an example of such behavior.

Being on the wrong side of the ledger, (expenses exceed income value) is a short career.

Respectfully,

Robert L Krieger Jr.