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Otis LRV pump gpm?

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 Vic
(@Vic)
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I've got an Otis LRV, (group II), 2500# capacity, 3.875" single piston, rated at 115 fpm with a submersible Allweiler pump. I think it was made before IMO bought them. The pump says SNDAN/ B140 R46 on the tag affixed to the controller. I've been Googling it, but there's no tech info, no PDFs, nuttin on it. It just occured to me, maybe I should check the motor itself.

My question is, I'm trying to find some quick info on the pump, namely, the GPM at 3550 rpm. I'm trying to run the calcs to check it's potential up speed when it was new.

It failed its' load test today, because it only rums 85 fpm up, with full load. Rated at 115 like it is, it cannot go less than 105 fpm up. (The load test form says that the rated speed [on the X-head] cannot be more than 110% above FLU) Which sounds like a backwards way to say it, since they could have just said that the FLU speed can't be less than like ~90% of the rated speed, but no matter.

The pump makes 400 psi for the full load, and 500 psi to blow off the relief.

Anyway, 85 feet per minute is HUGELY slower than the 105 fpm allowed, and there are two most probable causes- (Any others?)

1. The Pump is worn, and not putting out it's original gallons per minute
2. The unit was not rated correctly from the start, and every elevator company since "day one" has been pencil whipping the report.

Regarding pump wear, I'd have to say that it's unlikely to be THAT worn, beause that is a HUGE difference, between 85 fpm, and 105 fpm. I'd imagine the pump would be rattling, or growling, if it was truly worn enough to cause such a loss of volume pumped. There is "zero" evidence of this, because it runs smooth and quiet. Also, it is capable of producing 400 psi for FLU, and even 500 PSI to blow off the relief. Pump doesn't seem suspect.

As far as the unit not being rated correctly, I have run into two such elevators in my carreer. It turned out that various companies over many years were pencil whipping the reports, because none of them actually put down a genuine measured value. They just passed it, year after year. In one case, the information on file with the State was wrong, going all the way back to the acceptance inspection. They didn't believe my report, said it didn't match their data base, then they sent out an inpsector to witness me do the test for the 2nd time, then they went back and changed their books.

If I knew the GPM of this pump, I could calculate the possible up speed when it was new. Can't locate the pump tech data.

Anybody know what was the GPM of the typical pump Otis installed in their Group II, 2500#, 115 fpm LRVs? Or anybody know if there is an equivalent IMO number, as the Allweiler # might have been Otis proprietary? The X-head was originally stamped 125 fpm, then that got crossed out, and it was res-stamped 115 fpm. (Hmm!)

Last edited by Vic; 09/17/11 05:54 AM.


   
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 Vic
(@Vic)
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I'm gonna check if bypass is set right. Also, I forgot what the no-load up speed was.



   
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(@GreenPants)
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Being an Otis repair guy for many years I can say that almost all of that vintage LRV's run 89fpm FLU max. People have been "pencil whipping" it for years even inspectors because the calculations add up to the proper flow etc. and with mech tachs the helper just made it slightly faster. What was always done in my area with the consent of the elevator unit was to change the speed of the car on the cross head and the state database. Also a lot of those buffers were only rated for 100fpm down. You have to remember back in the day code wasn't as specific, it just had to meet engineering specs. You can prob adj the up start for a slightly faster speed but my guess is it's been like that since it was installed. And prob has a bunch of 90's in the oil line.



   
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 Vic
(@Vic)
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Good stuff to know! Thanks, GreenPants!



   
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(@Administrator)
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Hey Vic, I just had this same problem on an elevator about 3 months ago. If all else fails you can call Singleton at the State (if the car is in OC) and he will let you change the speed of the car with a written approval from the owner of the building. At least that way the State info will match the elevators actual speed. I've found there to be lots of pencil whipping in the past......



   
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 Vic
(@Vic)
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Yeah, good idea, thanks Mr Admin!

I wish it was discovered earlier on Friday, when the State office was open. I "erred" on the side of caution, and took it as a "fail", because it didn't meet the letter of the law.

Which is too bad, because I had to leave their one elevator down for the weekend. The pimps and whores have to use the urinal (stairs) now. Hope there's no handicapped people above ground.

Last edited by Vic; 09/18/11 07:50 PM.


   
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