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Miprom 21 Fault 27 help

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(@Local8Elev8rman)
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Yes, triple checked the PPR on the encoder, New encoder coupling. 12VDC at the encoder and approx 11.9VDC back to the controller on the square wave on the scope. There was noise on the channels coming back but we wired in a BEI filter module in at the controller.

Last edited by Local8Elev8rman; 03/09/18 01:02 AM.


   
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(@Indirtwetrust)
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I’m just guessing here now but could the CPU be envolved in reading the Encoder feedback? Have you tried swapping CPUs?



   
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(@john jay)
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Have you checked over the M switch. A bad aux. contactact can throw a 27 error. What is the error in the Drive Log?



   
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(@Local8Elev8rman)
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Swapped the CPU also, no change.

Have not checked the aux M contacts as it will run without fault with the gov encoder disconnected. It doesn't log a drive error.



   
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(@john jay)
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Any chance the tension sheave on the governor rope is bottomed out? How did this start? you say you have no floor table, so something must have happened to lose that.



   
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(@Local8Elev8rman)
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Tail sheave looks ok, did not see anything there to indicate any slippage for the governor. the call came in with this same symptom. I believe the floor table got lost with all the swapping around of boards and parts off and on of power countless times.



   
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(@john jay)
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I looked back through my old notes, I had a Mod throwing 27 error's because I didn't have enough field currant. Try checking out the field parameters, and bump up the field parameter. While your at it check out motor for connections, brushes and and such.



   
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(@john jay)
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Did you swap the CN6 cable to the CPU? Another quick easy check.



   
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(@Local8Elev8rman)
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I have not checked the motor field parameters. I will do that and compare to the other car. I did meg the armature and fields for integrity. I did swap the CN6 ribbon cable when we swapped the MSU board.



   
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(@Indirtwetrust)
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What if you just try to scale it in at inspect speed with the PPR adjustment in Motion Adjust. Not that it’s a real fix but it would be interesting to see if it would run consistently. Maybe you could even get it to take a scan. And if would run with MVEL over 150 fpm you could see if the 150 fpm ETS sensor board is reading the speed from the Encoder correctly.



   
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(@Local8Elev8rman)
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I hadn't thought of trying that. I will give it a shot.



   
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(@john jay)
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At this point I would try swapping the Motion Adapter Bd. They are plug and play. Also have you tried a reinit? It will tell you if one of the drive parameters is mismatched with the Miprom parameters.



   
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(@elmcannic)
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Is the new governor encoder the same rpm rating?
What does the Debug Screen show under Motion Excuses while the unit is faulted?
Dragging/sluggish brake (already mentioned) will cause a 27.
Flakey brake switch (if used) will generate a 27/26 fault.
Bad contacts, broken wires at Brake relays (SB, SB2 I think).

Faulty Brake Pick issues typically appear in Motion Region 2 or 3.



   
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(@Vatorgator)
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make sure motor encoder rpm is set to encoder rpm under msu adjust motion adjust. this is one parameter that is not listed in the miprom 21 black book, but i have had this a couple of times. have had a couple cars that will only change this parameter if the power goes out, or if you do not shut down the switches before main line. motor encoder not position encoder.

Last edited by Vatorgator; 03/13/18 04:08 PM.


   
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(@Local8Elev8rman)
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Good morning all. I can finally breathe a sigh of relief! We had success yesterday!!! Here's what happened.

Bottomed out I_DRV_VEL to lowest setting of 30 FPM and car ran in one direction without fault. I could then get a better reading on screen 3 in Motion info to compare the Vcmd, Vfb & Venc. car was still reading about 7 FPM higher on Venc = 34 compared to Vcmd.= 27. Compared to another car running same I_DRV_VEL speeds were only 1-2 FPM different.

Thanks to all of your suggestions I began looking at motor parameters, specifically the PPR of the motor encoder, which was set correctly according to the job parameter sheets, and param 558 ME Base Speed. I first tried changing the encoder PPR param 609 higher and lower but it didn't seem to have much affect. Granted I didn' make extreme changes as I didn't want to set the car on the safeties if I could help it. So I changed it back and lowered ME Base Speed from 850 to 700 and the car ran up and down on inspection without fault! I gradually brought the RPM higher until it faulted again and left it in a happy medium at 750. At that point we were able to get a floor table scan and run the car on automatic for the first time in a long time.

Here's where it gets even more interesting. On automatic the car was running in the high 370's with a M_VEL set at 350 and yes just clipping the over speed switch on the governor. Dropped M_VEL down to 325 and car still running high 350's. Dropped M_VEL to 300 car is running in the mid to high 330's. The other thing I notice is that the car seems to be overshooting the pattern a bit, not really noticeable in the car but you can hear it in the machine.

Put the car on a heat run, top to bottom for an hour or so to get things warmed up. Car ran fine, not overshooting floors or logging any faults. For now I am happy the car is running but I would like to get to the bottom of why I had to make those changes! My gut is telling me that even though the encoder tag says 2048 on the motor and 240 on the governor there is some difference between them and the original ones! I could probably make some more adjustments to param 609 and maybe get the car running a little better but not going to mess with it for now.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I REALLY appreciate all the help and suggestions along the way.



   
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